ACC Player of the Year and Coach of the Year

[R0cketer]

Gotta agree on this one....the bias part

If someone loves a team or a player or a coach, and they get themselves convinced that people off of that team are the only options, slam dunk choices, its kind of bad to then turn around and call someone else a homer.

Not saying that he isn't player of the year, honestly haven't watched enough to give a greatly informed opinion. Just I don't often find cases where there is one person or player that is so clearly up and above any other options. You do find them but when the person expressing that opinion is a fan of that team, its a bit cloudy

[Biggin]

Here are the stats, instead of just claiming someone is bias and acting like that matters, here are the cold, hard facts.

(PPG, APG, 3P&, RPG, BPG, SPG)
Vasquez:
19.6 6.3 .382 4.6 0.3 1.6
Scheyer:
18.9 5.2 .399 3.5 0.2 1.6
Delaney:
20.9 4.2 .320 3.6 0.1 1.2

[Biggin]

im far from a Maryland fan, but he was the only logical choice for ACC POY

[CoeburnCane]

Here are the stats, instead of just claiming someone is bias and acting like that matters, here are the cold, hard facts.

(PPG, APG, 3P&, RPG, BPG, SPG)
Vasquez:
19.6 6.3 .382 4.6 0.3 1.6
Scheyer:
18.9 5.2 .399 3.5 0.2 1.6
Delaney:
20.9 4.2 .320 3.6 0.1 1.2

I'm sorry but in terms of pure numbers--that doesn't look like a "slam dunk" choice to me. 0.7 ppg, 1.1 rpg, and 1.1 apg and .1 bpg (Vasquez over Scheyer) doesn't make it "clear cut" or "slam dunk". It makes it a tough choice.

Plus, Delaney beat Vasquez/Scheyer in ppg by 1.3/2.0 respectively. He had to be in the conversation.

Then there's the argument (that is valid) that Scheyer split stats with two of the better players in the ACC in Singler/Smith. If you took Scheyer and put him on MD or VT, does he get the #'s that he had a Duke, or does he get better since more of the shots/opportunities would go to him? It's a valid question. Some people say yes, others no. That had to weigh in on the voting...which means it's not a "slam dunk".

Overall, I'm saying it's just a tough choice between the 3. Vasquez does indeed deserve it, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm not a huge fan of arguing over who is/isn't POY as it doesn't mean anything ultimately--basketball's a team game, people remember titles/championships more than POY's.

[Biggin]

I'm sorry but in terms of pure numbers--that doesn't look like a "slam dunk" choice to me. 0.7 ppg, 1.1 rpg, and 1.1 apg and .1 bpg (Vasquez over Scheyer) doesn't make it "clear cut" or "slam dunk". It makes it a tough choice.

Plus, Delaney beat Vasquez/Scheyer in ppg by 1.3/2.0 respectively. He had to be in the conversation.

Then there's the argument (that is valid) that Scheyer split stats with two of the better players in the ACC in Singler/Smith. If you took Scheyer and put him on MD or VT, does he get the #'s that he had a Duke, or does he get better since more of the shots/opportunities would go to him? It's a valid question. Some people say yes, others no. That had to weigh in on the voting...which means it's not a "slam dunk".

Overall, I'm saying it's just a tough choice between the 3. Vasquez does indeed deserve it, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm not a huge fan of arguing over who is/isn't POY as it doesn't mean anything ultimately--basketball's a team game, people remember titles/championships more than POY's.

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

when a team relies on one player as much as UM does, it makes it easier for other teams to develop ways to stop him, because as we've found it, stop Vasquez and Maryland is easily beatable.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

[CoeburnCane]

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

No, that's your opinion. Just like the converse is my opinion. It may open up the court for Scheyer, but they take shots away from him that he would otherwise take and possibly make. His stats could look better if he had 2-3 more ppg that Singler/Smith pull away from him in the context of Duke's offense.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

When it's by slim margins, as it is. Your numbers don't show a guy blowing out the other two guys in stats, it shows slim margins on average. Plus, per your #'s...he leads in apg/rpg/bpg, not every category. Delaney leads in ppg, Scheyer in 3pt %, and Vasquez/Scheyer are equal in steals/game.

[R0cketer]

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

when a team relies on one player as much as UM does, it makes it easier for other teams to develop ways to stop him, because as we've found it, stop Vasquez and Maryland is easily beatable.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

I'm kind of confused. This is the argument was used in comments about all-lpd players earlier, and then it was one way, now its another

Its as always, clouded

[pvfan]

Show the stats in ACC play only and it's a large spread. Just like the LPD Rock, Hubbard>Vanover, Vasquez>Scheyer.

[pvfan]

Vasqeuz: 22.1 ppg, 44.2% fg, 6.7 apg, 39.8% 3pt fg
Scheyer: 18.7 ppg, 4.8 apg, 36.6% 3pt fg

Scheyer's fg% isn't listed on the ACC site for in conference because he's not in the top ten. Somebody lock this thread, or better yet leave it open. I'm rarely 100% right on something but this is it. Continue harping on Scheyer's skills if you wish Cane. Maybe Rock can chime in and tell us Vanover is better than Hubbard because he shoots 35 times a game. You see Rock, the difference is Vasquez actually shoots like 45% from the field. That is considered solid, by your logic Delaney should have won the award. He's not in the top ten in fg% either, if you shoot enough you will score. To Delaney's credit he gets fouled a ton going to the basket but anybody who shoots under 40% in ACC shouldn't be considered for POY.